Still mulling over medieval vs post-Enlightenment Christianity and the approach to work that flows from it, or perhaps rather from its approach to the world. The former is primarily receptive; the latter is primarily that of domination (man vs nature, via machine). I think reading enough original sources also would show that these are distinctly tied to Catholic vs Protestant ways of seeing the world, at least in so far as the theology is built on (or not built on) certain philosophies.
(I realize that’s a lot to say in one comment :) but it’s something I’ve been reflecting on lately… someday it may turn into an essay but I have a few others in the queue that need attention first!)
Just popping in to say, I heard a Lutheran pastor years ago contrast "life as gift" vs "life as work," attributing the former view to Lutherans (and likely Catholics?) and the latter to Reformed Protestants. It's in my head all the time now! (I'm sure you're on to something here and would love to read your essay if it ever comes.)
Fascinating! Certainly the many strains of Protestantism vary widely, but I think the anthropology set out by Luther (not always consistently in his own writings), which leads to a belief in total depravity of the human person (as espoused clearly by Calvin and followers) lends itself towards a belief in the human person’s inability to truly receive life/ the created world as a gift. Of course, I know not all Lutherans would subscribe to the doctrine of total depravity, and Lutheranism can have its own variety. :)
That’s an interesting thought. I recently read your essay on total depravity. Conservative Lutherans (myself included) do still hold to the unpopular view, in letter at least. If I am understanding your characterization/prediction correctly, I would agree to our inability to faithfully receive the gift, except by the free grace of God in Christ. This awareness of undeserved grace has, in my experience, enhanced my understanding of life as gift. I appreciated your aforementioned-essay (I apologize for having forgotten the title!) for its clear argument and acknowledgement of the disagreement. And thanks for your response here. (Thanks Haley for hosting ;)
It’s a very nuanced topic and definitely tricky to discuss in a comments section! I think both Catholics and Lutherans would hold to the idea of life/ creation/ salvation as a total free gift of God, which we cannot earn or “deserve” in the sense of achievement. I think where we differ would be on what receptivity of the gift looks like. Is it totally passive and just put upon us, or is it somehow, through a mysterious interplay of free will and grace, actively received? To me this is a key question for any Christian to wrestle with. I so appreciate your charity of disposition in this discussion!
I think that you are probably right that that is the point of disagreement! And both sides surely agree on the mysterious nature of God’s work in us. I appreciate your charity as well!
And to add to the “this is a terrible place for nuanced discussion” (lol) Haley I think you would be interested in the link that Catholics would make between femininity and active receptivity, and perhaps how that ties into extreme Protestant rejections of what is truly feminine?
Would the Catholic view of this be fleshed out in that encyclical you sent me?
This is also another essay I would read. :)
I'm guessing "extreme Protestant rejections of what is truly feminine" would include the progressive mainline strains which reject the givenness of gender.... or are we talking more fundamental and insidious things like acceptance of contraception, hormonal or otherwise - among conservative Protestants?
Okay, I'm rereading Wuthering Heights now and it's one of my favorite books so I feel I've got to do some defending 😆 This is a long excerpt from Virginia Woolf's essay "Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights" but it really encapsulates part of why I love WH so much (it's worth reading, I promise!):
Wuthering Heights is a more difficult book to understand than Jane Eyre, because Emily was a greater poet than Charlotte. When Charlotte wrote she said with eloquence and splendour and passion “I love, ” “I hate,” “I suffer.” Her experience, though more intense, is on a level with our own.
But there is no “I” in Wuthering Heights. There are no governesses. There are no employers. There is love, but it is not the love of men and women. Emily was inspired by some more general conception.
The impulse which urged her to create was not her own suffering or her own injuries. She looked out upon a world cleft into gigantic disorder and felt within her the power to unite it in a book.
That gigantic ambition is to be felt throughout the novel — a struggle, half thwarted but of superb conviction, to say something through the mouths of her characters which is not merely “I love” or “I hate,” but “we, the whole human race ” and “you, the eternal powers . . .” the sentence remains unfinished. It is not strange that it should be so; rather it is astonishing that she can make us feel what she had it in her to say at all.
My husband and I read Wuthering Heights as part of what we jokingly refer to as our Spouse Book Club a few years ago. It was his first time reading it, I had read it in high school so I had forgotten all but the broadest details. He was about halfway through when I finished and when I asked him what he thought so far he said, "This is a very interesting book that I'm going to finish and never read again." Fair enough! 😆 FWIW I think both The Tenant of Wildfell Hall and Jane Eyre are FAR better books than WH in case you haven't read them and you want to try out other Bronte books.
That's what I've gathered from others - that the other Bronte books are more widely loved. I remember reading Jane Eyre in jr high or high school because my mom strongly suggested/made me(?) but absolutely surprised myself with how much I loved it. Need to revisit it.
Oh too funny! I read Wuthering Heights this week too! I was really surprised at how much it was NOT romantic (like many of the book covers would have you believe). Quite a ride, wasn’t it?
You were like the second person I heard say the same. haha Something about this January weather making us invested in moody novels perhaps?
Well, I do primarily audiobooks, as that is what fits my situation and season - so I have those saved in different lists. I do have an overall "year list" of things I want to get to, but fill in the gaps with saved book that particularly strike my fancy during that time for various reasons... as I believe structure should be tempered with what the mind or heart needs just like intuitive eating with food! Always have non-fiction and a novel going at the same time, for balance.
I haven’t been able to keep up with all the articles I want to read lately! But I always enjoy getting this missive and knowing that when/if I ever have more reading time, I’ll have these lists to reference. It’s very comforting 💕
I feel exactly the same about Wuthering Heights and it seems from the comments that this is a common sentiment 😅. (I also feel this way about The Scarlet Letter… interesting but nobody’s favorite book.) In addition to it romanticizing suicide, Anne Brontë disliked the novel and thought it was not harsh enough on drunkenness. She wrote The Tenant of Wildfell Hall partially as a response/rebuttal. Neither of these even compares to the genius of Jane Eyre in my opinion! I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve read it and every time something new stands out.
Makes sense! I have wanted to revisit The Scarlet Letter as an adult, mostly because I remember reading and writing a literary paper on it in 6th grade.... that was an absolute banger I was proud of. hahaa
Interesting about The Tenant of Wildfell Hall. Making a mental note, as I want to get to the other Bronte sisters this year. (I did read Jane Eyre in jr or high school and absolutely loved it. One of the first substantial books I fell in love with.)
I’ve heard quite a few people say that about Jane Eyre!! It was the first classic I read of my own volition and helped me fall in love with more “real” books, so to speak.
I read Wuthering Heights in high school and remember thinking that I never wanted to read it again, lol. Not a classic I'm likely to revisit as an adult!
Still mulling over medieval vs post-Enlightenment Christianity and the approach to work that flows from it, or perhaps rather from its approach to the world. The former is primarily receptive; the latter is primarily that of domination (man vs nature, via machine). I think reading enough original sources also would show that these are distinctly tied to Catholic vs Protestant ways of seeing the world, at least in so far as the theology is built on (or not built on) certain philosophies.
(I realize that’s a lot to say in one comment :) but it’s something I’ve been reflecting on lately… someday it may turn into an essay but I have a few others in the queue that need attention first!)
Just popping in to say, I heard a Lutheran pastor years ago contrast "life as gift" vs "life as work," attributing the former view to Lutherans (and likely Catholics?) and the latter to Reformed Protestants. It's in my head all the time now! (I'm sure you're on to something here and would love to read your essay if it ever comes.)
Fascinating! Certainly the many strains of Protestantism vary widely, but I think the anthropology set out by Luther (not always consistently in his own writings), which leads to a belief in total depravity of the human person (as espoused clearly by Calvin and followers) lends itself towards a belief in the human person’s inability to truly receive life/ the created world as a gift. Of course, I know not all Lutherans would subscribe to the doctrine of total depravity, and Lutheranism can have its own variety. :)
That’s an interesting thought. I recently read your essay on total depravity. Conservative Lutherans (myself included) do still hold to the unpopular view, in letter at least. If I am understanding your characterization/prediction correctly, I would agree to our inability to faithfully receive the gift, except by the free grace of God in Christ. This awareness of undeserved grace has, in my experience, enhanced my understanding of life as gift. I appreciated your aforementioned-essay (I apologize for having forgotten the title!) for its clear argument and acknowledgement of the disagreement. And thanks for your response here. (Thanks Haley for hosting ;)
It’s a very nuanced topic and definitely tricky to discuss in a comments section! I think both Catholics and Lutherans would hold to the idea of life/ creation/ salvation as a total free gift of God, which we cannot earn or “deserve” in the sense of achievement. I think where we differ would be on what receptivity of the gift looks like. Is it totally passive and just put upon us, or is it somehow, through a mysterious interplay of free will and grace, actively received? To me this is a key question for any Christian to wrestle with. I so appreciate your charity of disposition in this discussion!
I think that you are probably right that that is the point of disagreement! And both sides surely agree on the mysterious nature of God’s work in us. I appreciate your charity as well!
And to add to the “this is a terrible place for nuanced discussion” (lol) Haley I think you would be interested in the link that Catholics would make between femininity and active receptivity, and perhaps how that ties into extreme Protestant rejections of what is truly feminine?
Would the Catholic view of this be fleshed out in that encyclical you sent me?
This is also another essay I would read. :)
I'm guessing "extreme Protestant rejections of what is truly feminine" would include the progressive mainline strains which reject the givenness of gender.... or are we talking more fundamental and insidious things like acceptance of contraception, hormonal or otherwise - among conservative Protestants?
Okay, I'm rereading Wuthering Heights now and it's one of my favorite books so I feel I've got to do some defending 😆 This is a long excerpt from Virginia Woolf's essay "Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights" but it really encapsulates part of why I love WH so much (it's worth reading, I promise!):
Wuthering Heights is a more difficult book to understand than Jane Eyre, because Emily was a greater poet than Charlotte. When Charlotte wrote she said with eloquence and splendour and passion “I love, ” “I hate,” “I suffer.” Her experience, though more intense, is on a level with our own.
But there is no “I” in Wuthering Heights. There are no governesses. There are no employers. There is love, but it is not the love of men and women. Emily was inspired by some more general conception.
The impulse which urged her to create was not her own suffering or her own injuries. She looked out upon a world cleft into gigantic disorder and felt within her the power to unite it in a book.
That gigantic ambition is to be felt throughout the novel — a struggle, half thwarted but of superb conviction, to say something through the mouths of her characters which is not merely “I love” or “I hate,” but “we, the whole human race ” and “you, the eternal powers . . .” the sentence remains unfinished. It is not strange that it should be so; rather it is astonishing that she can make us feel what she had it in her to say at all.
Fascinating! Thanks for sharing that quote.
My husband and I read Wuthering Heights as part of what we jokingly refer to as our Spouse Book Club a few years ago. It was his first time reading it, I had read it in high school so I had forgotten all but the broadest details. He was about halfway through when I finished and when I asked him what he thought so far he said, "This is a very interesting book that I'm going to finish and never read again." Fair enough! 😆 FWIW I think both The Tenant of Wildfell Hall and Jane Eyre are FAR better books than WH in case you haven't read them and you want to try out other Bronte books.
That's what I've gathered from others - that the other Bronte books are more widely loved. I remember reading Jane Eyre in jr high or high school because my mom strongly suggested/made me(?) but absolutely surprised myself with how much I loved it. Need to revisit it.
Oh too funny! I read Wuthering Heights this week too! I was really surprised at how much it was NOT romantic (like many of the book covers would have you believe). Quite a ride, wasn’t it?
I wonder how you decide what to read next? 😊
You were like the second person I heard say the same. haha Something about this January weather making us invested in moody novels perhaps?
Well, I do primarily audiobooks, as that is what fits my situation and season - so I have those saved in different lists. I do have an overall "year list" of things I want to get to, but fill in the gaps with saved book that particularly strike my fancy during that time for various reasons... as I believe structure should be tempered with what the mind or heart needs just like intuitive eating with food! Always have non-fiction and a novel going at the same time, for balance.
Great stuff and as always thanks for the shoutout. I'm way behind on my reading lately, but catching up with all this great stuff now!
Love this roundup and thanks for the mention.
Thanks for another teaspoon into the ocean.
(In addition to the five within your home whom you love and serve daily.)
I'm thankful you combine your list-making tendencies with a desire for truth, goodness, and beauty. It is a flex.
haha, thank you! My mind often needs the categorization to make sense of things. Sometimes I'm reminded not everyone functions in the same way.
I haven’t been able to keep up with all the articles I want to read lately! But I always enjoy getting this missive and knowing that when/if I ever have more reading time, I’ll have these lists to reference. It’s very comforting 💕
What I love to hear. This is an at-your-leisure, anti-reactionary space — come and meander as you like. :)
I feel exactly the same about Wuthering Heights and it seems from the comments that this is a common sentiment 😅. (I also feel this way about The Scarlet Letter… interesting but nobody’s favorite book.) In addition to it romanticizing suicide, Anne Brontë disliked the novel and thought it was not harsh enough on drunkenness. She wrote The Tenant of Wildfell Hall partially as a response/rebuttal. Neither of these even compares to the genius of Jane Eyre in my opinion! I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve read it and every time something new stands out.
Makes sense! I have wanted to revisit The Scarlet Letter as an adult, mostly because I remember reading and writing a literary paper on it in 6th grade.... that was an absolute banger I was proud of. hahaa
Interesting about The Tenant of Wildfell Hall. Making a mental note, as I want to get to the other Bronte sisters this year. (I did read Jane Eyre in jr or high school and absolutely loved it. One of the first substantial books I fell in love with.)
I’d love to read that 😅
I’ve heard quite a few people say that about Jane Eyre!! It was the first classic I read of my own volition and helped me fall in love with more “real” books, so to speak.
I read Wuthering Heights in high school and remember thinking that I never wanted to read it again, lol. Not a classic I'm likely to revisit as an adult!